bblreader wrote:
After the Council in Jerusalem, several men appointed by the apostles accompanied Paul on his way back, and the epistle certainly went to those to whom it was sent. The commandments in the epistle were the limited ones from the Law to Israel that were to be binding to those in the believing church from the gentiles. Paul also related an additional thing, in addition to the Law, that was to be required from them.

This makes you wonder though, why did they need to send others with paul? To make sure he did deliver it?

What do you mean by Paul relating an additional thing? to what are you referring?

bblreader wrote:
That the church of the Ephesians tested those who claimed to be apostles and were not does not in itself show to be including Paul, and Paul himself warned of such imposters. There needs to be more to show that Paul himself was one.

Slight of hand. Turn the eyes away from you and on others and you are least suspected.


Remember he said:For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate.

bblreader wrote:
In looking at what I could find on the matter, Paul was following within rabbinical tradition with respect to what was questioned regarding Psalm 68, and it included that in taking of gifts, Yahweh God was using an occasion to give back gifts, for God gives more than we can give to him. That there were ungodly abuses from institutions later in history, to lay this as a direct responsibility of Paul is certainly unfair, as this practice may be used against anybody, as some have said even against Christ, it would still be unfair. It was not because of a truth, because it is true God gave gifts.


Was not the gift of salvation enough? Paul comes up with these so called gifts, to make his followers believe they are special. But he reminds them time and again that he is more special than everyone, including those who lived with Yeshua and sat at his feet throughout his whole ministry. I won't even go into his worse false 'gifts' which have no Biblical backup, suffice it to say that many have been lead so far astray by these far more than drawn closer to the L-RD in their life, not to mention those who felt they were not worthy because they didn't have these gifts. I have witnessed this myself.

Yechezel 3 wrote:
Paul, once he got so much flack from the Jews because they did not believe his bogus gospel...
This is an extremely important point. Paul often spoke of being beaten, and Luke always phrased it to make us think that he was being persecuted for Yeshua. Not so!

The beatings were because he continually tried to turn people away from the law, and the Torah says that anyone who brings such a message is a false prophet who must not be listened to, but is to be put to death (Deut 13:5).

Despite the many beatings Paul still did not get it, despite saying elsewhere that "ALL Scrip-ture is given by the inspiration of God... and is profitable for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete" (2 Tim 3:16-17). Now 'all Scrip-ture' clearly includes Deut 13:5, and no amount of twisting by Paul can negate it.

In fact by limiting themselves to merely beating Paul, the Jews showed him mercy according to the law - an attribute which was absent from Paul when, 'in the name of Jesus' (!!!), he ordered the church in Corinth to kill one of their own members (1 Cor 5:4-5).

How people who claim to follow Jesus can support such an awful man is way beyond me.

Shalom

That is your perception, where is the facts of this?

Shaun the Sheep wrote:
Yechezel 3 wrote:
Paul, once he got so much flack from the Jews because they did not believe his bogus gospel...
This is an extremely important point. Paul often spoke of being beaten, and Luke always phrased it to make us think that he was being persecuted for Yeshua. Not so!

The beatings were because he continually tried to turn people away from the law, and the Torah says that anyone who brings such a message is a false prophet who must not be listened to, but is to be put to death (Deut 13:5).

Despite the many beatings Paul still did not get it, despite saying elsewhere that "ALL Scrip-ture is given by the inspiration of God... and is profitable for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete" (2 Tim 3:16-17). Now 'all Scrip-ture' clearly includes Deut 13:5, and no amount of twisting by Paul can negate it.

In fact by limiting themselves to merely beating Paul, the Jews showed him mercy according to the law - an attribute which was absent from Paul when, 'in the name of Jesus' (!!!), he ordered the church in Corinth to kill one of their own members (1 Cor 5:4-5).

How people who claim to follow Jesus can support such an awful man is way beyond me.

Shalom Yes, this is so very true, Paul loved playing the martyr and I seriously doubt now if he ever was. For someone to have to constantly brag about their credentials, their work, their trials shows that what they are doing is not for the L-RD but to glorify themselves.

Yes, they did show him mercy in many a place he went, and another thing they showed was their obedience to YHVH. It was not that they didn't believe in the true Messiah, but they knew not to believe in the one that Paul taught. I think they will be well commended by the L-RD for not doing so.

Paul also taught that the Jews were blinded for the sake of the gentiles, which was not true. Even the little evidence we have been given in the Paulianity books show this. James says in Acts 21:20 that there were literally tens of thousands of Jews that believed and were zealous for the law. They perfectly meet the requirement of those Yeshua mentions in Revelation, the ones that are hated by the Dragon. Why are they hated? Because these are the true believers, these are the remnant who haven't followed the beast.

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Paul teaches that G-d can't deal with his own children and gentiles at the same time. That the Jews had to be removed from the tree of blessings so that the gentiles could come in. Gentiles from the mountain were always invited in, it was no one or the other. We see a great example of this in the book of Rut. I truly believe that Pauls teachings were the cause of the Jews not believing in the true Messiah after the first century. This would perfectly fit with the evil ones plans. Look at who persecuted the Jews the most since Yeshua left, Christians. And why? because of what Paul taught. Paul twists true _script_ure around, (spoken by Yeshua) to take the attention off himself. Yeshua said this:

You blind Pharisee, clean first that which is inside the cup and plate, so the outside of them may be clean also. Matthew 23:26


Do a search on the word 'blind' and see how many times Yeshua healed the blind, for this was one of the prophecies made about him. Certainly not to blind people. The ones that were blinded were blinded by their own arrogance and pride.

We see a great picture of this in John 9. While studying this one day the Spirit gave me insight into what this really was saying. This man was not just blind but he had no eyes. This is why the one whom John tells us nothing was created without him, uses dirt and his own water (spittle) to form clay and to literally make eyes for this man. That is why everyone was so astonished. There are many other cases recorded in Matthew of him healing the blind but this case was different in that he gave eyes, not just sight to this man. But the Pharisees are shown what they really are in this story. It is good to study this chapter in John, but I will leave you with this:

39 Jesus said, "For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind." 40 Some Pharisees who were with him heard him say this and asked, "What? Are we blind too?" 41 Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.

These are those who were blinded, The Pharisees, and guess who was one of them? Saul, and he remained so as he testified himself before thousands (Acts 23:6) Is it just a coincidence that we see Paul blinded in his 'revelation'? I do not believe he saw Yeshua because that contradicts Yeshua himself but I think that Yeshua may have caused his blindness to not be fully healed to show him (which apparently didn't work but will testify against him) but to others such as us that he was still a blind Pharisee that we are not to certainly be imitating as Paul taught others to imitate himself. He is truly the epitome of the blind guide, the blind leading the blind (the heathens)and it is mind boggling to think of how many will not get to heaven because of him.

You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

Many do not understand what this means. They quote it but do not understand what Yeshua was saying. Only but a few insects are Kosher to eat. Gnats are not one of them, but they are very tiny and hard to spot in your food. Rabbinical (Pharisaical) Jews today will go to the extreme of looking at each piece of lettuce for their salads (many just don't eat salads because of all the trouble) over a special light box to make sure there are no insects anywhere. That is 'straining at a gnat. But Yeshua says, they swallow a camel. A camel is not Kosher, and it is a very large animal. This is a great contrast to show the mind of the Pharisee of which Paul claims to be a Pharisee of a Pharisee.


It is good to remember the second commandment in it's fullness:

Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Eccle. Tells us a very pertinent point:

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. Very simple and easy to follow but Paul basically taught that man no longer had this duty to G-d , in other words, man no longer owed G-d anything. How much more arrogant can you get and so much so like the adversary?