I have tried to follow, but I have been left behind. Rodin and I guess others reject listening to writings from Paul and accuse him as a heretic. But why? I have already said I am new here, and as you will say you have plenty of basis, you might just tell me to look for that which I have not seen, but maybe you could post a _link_ to what you refer to that I could quickly have something to which I might respond. And to what exactly is Berean agreeing?

I would listen to what is from Paul in the Bible, and my basis is that he was commissioned by Christ, and epistles from him were recognized as _script_ure by Peter.

Christ appeared and spoke to Paul in the time of his conversion, Acts 26: 16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you.

And speaking to assure Ananias concerning Paul, Acts 9: 15 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel. 16 For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name’s sake.”

Ananias spoke to Paul, Acts 22: 14 Then he said, ‘The God of our fathers has chosen you that you should know His will, and see the Just One, and hear the voice of His mouth. 15 For you will be His witness to all men of what you have seen and heard.'

And then Paul recounts when later he was in Jerusalem: 21 Then He said to me, ‘Depart, for I will send you far from here to the Gentiles.’

Paul is a recognized apostle in the Bible, and so is even Barnabas. Acts 13: 2 As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, “Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.”

When they were in Iconium, we are told, Acts 14: 4 But the multitude of the city was divided: part sided with the Jews, and part with the apostles. ...14 But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard this, they tore their clothes and ran in among the multitude...

Paul of course has things to say about the Sabbath, which I feel responsible for speaking of on this thread, when it then became a central issue. I have tried to say here before that the morality of the law still holds, but if we are saved, we are saved through Christ, by his righteousness, according to our faith, as for which he has given promises, and not our works according to the law, and we will not be judged by them. We then should seek obedience to the morality of the Bible including of the law, but that which was given to Israel from Yahweh includes types that are fulfilled in Christ, who did not come to do away with the law but obeyed it perfectly, providing the way of salvation for us. And you must answer to your conscience, following it or it is sin to you, but you cannot decide for that without basis from the Bible for everyone else. The parts of the law that are just the types for what we can find fulfilled in Christ, we should then find in Christ.

bblreader wrote:
I have tried to follow, but I have been left behind. Rodin and I guess others reject listening to writings from Paul and accuse him as a heretic. But why?


Keep on testing and searching...test the words in the OT, and the Words of Yeshua against Paul - and you'll find that they do not line up.

To see the truth it's much like having to smash a rock into pieces - once piece at a time. It's hard to explain to someone when all there life (like much of mine) you had believed something to be true that was a lie...however if you are sincere and really are earnestly wanting truth (cry out to God every day for truth) and He will lead you to the truth.


I would listen to what is from Paul in the Bible, and my basis is that he was commissioned by Christ, and epistles from him were recognized as _script_ure by Peter.


First of all on the basis that he was commissioned by Christ. What if that basis were false? Or that he was commissioned by "a christ" and not THE Messiah. John said that many antichrists had gone out into the world, and we should TEST the spirits. Have you ever THOROUGHLY tested the spirit of this Christ that paul follows and listens to and claims is in him?

He was commissioned by someone that is called Christ in the Bible - this does not mean it was Yeshua - nor does it mean that Paul was commissioned to be an apostle. Only Paul said he was an apostle - and Luke happened to be one of his followers. More evidence is needed for proof of his apostleshop.

The epistle from Peter in the Bible is a forgery (not written by Peter himself) - I know that may sound incredulous but search this website and further, you'll find what I'm saying is true.



Christ appeared and spoke to Paul in the time of his conversion, Acts 26: 16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you.


Who wrote this part of Acts 26? What did this Christ say earlier in Acts?

The deception we're talking about here is so deep it has deceived mankind for roughly 2000 years and is still deceiving. How would you be able to recognize a wolf in sheep's clothing? It looks like a sheep, doesn't it? But it isn't - you often need to use a microscope to see the difference. I highly recommend also going through the entire website http://www.jesuswordsonly.com [Read everything with a find tooth comb] then go through every bit of information on this website - remember that part of your mind is going to be thinking "can't be" - this is the breaking of the rock I'm talking about - it's shocking.


And speaking to assure Ananias concerning Paul, Acts 9: 15 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel. 16 For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name’s sake.”


Again see the website above.




Paul is a recognized apostle in the Bible, and so is even Barnabas. Acts 13: 2 As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, “Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.”



Again - tell me who put Acts together and if even God calls you for a plan and purpose it does not mean you're an apostle. Yeshua/Jesus chose 12 yet even said that one of them (that he had chosen/called) was a devil.


and not our works according to the law, and we will not be judged by them.


Your faith is shown by your works. Where did you get this passage "not our works according to the law" . Please again find valid _script_ure in the OT, or the Words of Jesus - these words must line up with that foundation.




We then should seek obedience to the morality of the Bible including of the law, but that which was given to Israel from Yahweh includes types that are fulfilled in Christ, who did not come to do away with the law but obeyed it perfectly, providing the way of salvation for us.

Again where did you find this? Please quote the OT or Words of Jesus here. I am just trying to show you how one goes about testing the spirit of the words that you refer to (which look like they're coming from paul? Why not Jesus? Isn't what Jesus said more important than what Paul said? Again see the website I quoted above - it does go very well into the subjects I mention here ... http://www.jesuswordsonly.com


The parts of the law that are just the types for what we can find fulfilled in Christ, we should then find in Christ.

In the Words of Jesus ? or in the words of someone else ?

Paul is being made the false prophet by some tests, but if you use that same test on Yeshua, he becomes a false Prophet too!

Test:
Diminishing the law. Teaching against it.

Matt 5:38,39 compared to Ex 21:24
An eye for an eye but rather love your enemy.

You know Berean that it pretty much comes down to this, you have questions. Questions that no one has answered to your satisfaction. That's not surprising.
It is not man that will ever lead you and guide you into all truth and understanding. It is the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth.
You have have one teacher...Messiah.

However that being said sometimes when it comes to the Law, it helps to shift your perspective.
If you see it as a matter of religious imposition, then it becomes just that. However if you choose to see it as a matter physics, then a whole new world of wonder will open up to you. Because in reality the Law of YHVH and the Laws of physics are one and the same.
So a person can fight against the law of gravity all they like, but in the end they only end up hurting themselves and of course everyone they happen to land on.

Just a matter of note: When Yahshua said he came to fulfill the law, well first off the word fulfill is 'pleroo' (Spelling might be off there) Anyway this word actually means 'to cause to abound' to overflow.' Kind of in the way of overflowing a cup. If you see it in the sense of an overflowing fountain then you'll get a sense of just what Yahshua was saying in that passage.
Poor translations make for poor understanding.

Michael

It is not man that will ever lead you and guide you into all truth and understanding. It is the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth.
You have have one teacher...Messiah

That is very true Michael.

My concern for that is we must test the Spirit against something. There has to be a common rule or measure that can be used. If we do not have such, we would easily be misled, thinking it be the Ruach Ha'Kodesh where is in fact it was a misleading spirit.

So if we have a teacher, that is the Ruach send by Yeshua that will teach us, that spirit should then affirm what we learn in the council of many where there is wisdom. Is it not so?

I'm trying to understand then how the mentioned passages which is on superficial level contradictory, complimentary to each other.

I see your answer about the abounding of the law. Am I then missing something in translation or tradition? For the two seems very opposite. One says eye for an eye and life for life, but Yeshua use the word 'but I tell you', as if he is saying something different.

Hi Berean:

I see your answer about the abounding of the law. Am I then missing something in translation or tradition? For the two seems very opposite. One says eye for an eye and life for life, but Yeshua use the word 'but I tell you', as if he is saying something different.

I thought I would address this first:
I suppose you could say that Yahshua is saying something different, but actually He is saying something higher.
I'll explain from an vibratory standpoint.
Negative emotions have low vibratory wavelengths, you know things like hate, fear, violence, pride and all things negative. Whereas the higher emotions have a very high vibration, love, gratitude, peace, joy, beauty and all things wonderful.
So when Yahshua says, but I say unto you ...love your enemies.' From a purely energetic standpoint what is happening is this, If I receive a negative instance from someone and I return a negative instance all I have done is perpetuate the negative, kind of like creating a dark, negative vortex, a whirlpool if you will that sucks both participants into it's grip.
On the other hand if I return positive for negative,
i.e. someone whacks me on the cheek, and I give the other cheek, then what happens is this...I transmute or reverse the flow of negative energy, or rather I create within myself a whirlpool of light that washes the dark energy away from myself.
So simply an 'eye for an eye or a blow for a blow, only stops the dark energy in it's track but kind after kind does not reverse the flow.
It helps to see this illustration in the form of rivers or streams. In the Mosaic law, the river is dammed up for the time being, but with what Yahshua instructed the river is reversed.
Other analogies would be something like this, positive for negative is a form of transmutation.
Anyway the point is, is that you want to stay in higher vibrations, so in order to do this it is necessary to return light for darkness.

Michael