Good answer Michael, you made me laugh! Also you outdid me by nearly 17 years. But better late than never.

jj, I actually agree with most of what you said. As often happens, the problem seems to be definitions, where each person assigns a slightly different meaning to the same word.

I differ only on the issue of earning salvation - personally I do believe it's a free gift, but to retain it we have to start doing the good works, or else we may lose it.

But the salvation issue is really a red herring. Our focus shouldn't be confined to getting saved, but on becoming filled with the Holy Spirit, to equip us to go forth and do good works. That's how we help to bring the Kingdom to earth, by honouring the two greatest commandments (to love God, and to love our neighbour). If everyone did that, then the earth would be like utopia.

What Paul did was to move the focus completely onto salvation, as if that's all that really matters. It's not; there's far more to it than that.

Shaun

Mishayah wrote:
Hey there

You asked:
When do you think the kingdom arrived?

Well for me March 11 1981, it was on a Tuesday. About 8:00Am.

Michael

Did you have a smirk on your face when you wrote that?

Shaun wrote:
Yeshua told us to pray "Your will be done on earth, as it is in heaven". The prophets clearly said that the Messiah IS coming, and that He WILL establish the Kingdom on earth. Not in some vague spiritual sense, but as a literal, physical kingdom. YHWH has not been outwitted by man on this.
Shaun

The physical kingdom you mentioned: "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed, nor will they say, Look here it is! or There!" Luke 17:20-21

jj, the verses you quoted are from the Olivet discourse, where Yeshua was warning us not to be deceived by the coming antichrist kingdom.

The prophets spoke at length about the last days of this age, and the age to come. One of the most deficient areas of church teaching is how there's so little concept of the age to come - they're all so fixated on Paul, that they never bother to properly read the prophets (and I'm speaking of experienced pastors, who ought to know these things).

Isaiah spoke a lot about the age to come, which clearly will be on earth. There's also this gem from Habakkuk: "For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea" (Hab 2:14). No need to float around in heaven - it will be right here down on the ground!

I respectfully suggest that you need to spend more time with the prophets, regardless of some 'Jesus only' theologians saying they can be safely ignored.

Shaun

Shaun wrote:
jj, the verses you quoted are from the Olivet discourse, where Yeshua was warning us not to be deceived by the coming antichrist kingdom.

Isaiah spoke a lot about the age to come, which clearly will be on earth. There's also this gem from Habakkuk: "For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea" (Hab 2:14). No need to float around in heaven - it will be right here down on the ground!

I respectfully suggest that you need to spend more time with the prophets, regardless of some 'Jesus only' theologians saying they can be safely ignored.

Shaun

You quoted only one verse. Do you think the prophets of old knew more than Jesus did?

Hi All


Yahshua prayed 'Father that they all be One:....'
This has been taken as Oneness for the collective. However what Yahshua said was this 'that they individually be One,...
Now then as to the marriage, this is it. Go ahead read John 17:21 for the full verse.

The Word without the Spirit is like the sperm without the egg.

Each has potential but without the union there is no life.

Now some don't want a 'vague spiritual kingdom' well that's fine, but you won't get one without the other.

Someone please do a little individual research on the word kingdom. It means 'reign' and not an actual physical kingdom.
What Yahshua preached was the 'REIGN of GOD' within you.
This is entirely consistent through all the gospels.

So to say or complain that someone does not want the spiritual reign of God within them is again, fine, but do not deceive yourself and expect to get or obtain the age of righteousness promised by the YHVH through the prophets.

So unless you are born from above you cannot enter the reign of YHVH nor can the Reign of YHVH enter you. You won't see it either, because unless one is born from above they are in all actuality dead.

Michael